Wisdom Wednesday feat. Him + Her Worship
Welcome to Wisdom Wednesday, a weekly series where we chat with some of our favorite artists! This week Wisdom & Kat sit down (virtually) with Seth & Jenna from Him + Her Worship! Join them for an open conversation about places they will NOT eat, finding contentment, redefining expectations, & what they’ve learned since moving to Nashville. You can check out Seth and Jenna’s music here.
Want to be a guest on the show or have someone you wish we’d have on? Email us at hello@marketingwithwisdom.com.
Kat:
Happy Wednesday, Instagram. In case you've watched this before, and especially if you're watching this back, I moved locations today. And I'm upstairs in our music studio, thought the lighting might be better here. Hi, Zachary Ray, looking forward to having you on in just a few weeks.
Kat:
But yeah, I'm working from up here today because the lighting is a little bit better. And also, I've had some real qualms about what I'm wearing, because I kind of feel like a mechanic, but also like I might break out in a song from West Side Story. Did you hear what I said?
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Kat:
That's... I liked the shirt. But all day, when I've seen it on screen, I've been like... kind of feel like either a mechanic or like a member of West Side Story.
Wisdom:
Or just like a basketball player.
Kat:
Yeah, a basketball... I just came from the gym, you guys, so swole. How are you?
Wisdom:
Good.
Kat:
Good. I was explaining to them too. I moved upstairs today. I'm in our music studio.
Wisdom:
Oh, nice.
Kat:
Thought the background might be more interesting.
Wisdom:
Cool.
Kat:
Who knows?
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Kat:
Yeah. Yours looks the same.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Kat:
If any of you are joining us for the first time ever, my name is Kat Robertson. And I am the digital marketing director here at Christian Music Marketing, marketing with Wisdom.
Wisdom:
And I'm Wisdom. And I'm the founder of Christian Music Marketing and marketing with wisdom.
Kat:
Yep. It's a great name because it has some real implications.
Wisdom:
Yeah. Sometimes, people ask me, when I do calls, like the initial calls... Or they'll ask me what my name is. And then, I tell them. And then, they're like, "Oh, I get it."
Wisdom:
Or a lot of times it's like they don't even believe me...
Kat:
Sounds right.
Wisdom:
... that it's my real name. But yeah, it is a play on words. Hey Dan [inaudible 00:02:18] joining us.
Kat:
Well, I think our guest is already here this week. They've sent me a request to try and join. So, should we go ahead and try and bring them in?
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Kat:
This is a good friend of ours. Well, good friends of ours, I should say. And they've recently relocated to Nashville and we're super excited to welcome Seth and Jenna from Him and H worship. Yeah. Yay. Maybe afterwards I'll add some clapping.
Seth:
Hey, hey.
Jenna:
Hey.
Wisdom:
Hey.
Kat:
Hi guys.
Jenna:
Hey, what's up?
Seth:
Hi friends. How are you guys doing?
Wisdom:
Good. How are you guys?
Seth:
So good. So good.
Jenna:
We're good. We're good.
Seth:
Thanks for having us on. We're really excited to be here.
Jenna:
We're pumped. We actually just saw Kat like last week too.
Seth:
Yeah. I don't even think we have anything to talk about.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Kat:
So true.
Seth:
Honestly, we talked about everything.
Kat:
You know? Honestly, the conversation went very quickly from like, "It's so good to see you both" to like, "So, this is a therapy session now all the way around and we're all holding hands, basically." It was great.
Jenna:
That's right. That's so true.
Seth:
All around some awesome sandwiches. So, it's perfect.
Kat:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yes.
Kat:
Very true. Shout out to Mitchell Deli. If you're here in Nashville, you need to go check it out. Very good.
Seth:
It's so good. Yeah, it's so good.
Wisdom:
Sponsor us.
Seth:
Yes. Yes, please.
Kat:
Maybe we could do that. I could start giving some shout outs to people on here, good places to have meetings, whatever.
Jenna:
Oh, yeah.
Seth:
Yeah. And we just all get to eat sandwiches while we're talking. That'd be...
Jenna:
Oh, yeah.
Seth:
That would be perfect. I am so...
Wisdom:
I'll do sponsorships for free food.
Jenna:
Yeah, for real.
Seth:
For sure, yeah.
Kat:
Oh, I would eat anywhere if someone gave it to me for free.
Jenna:
Yeah. I'm with you.
Seth:
Anywhere? For real, anywhere?
Kat:
I think so. I'm not scared. I'm not scared.
Seth:
That's amazing.
Kat:
I'm going to have to walk this back in a few weeks when we get some really weird awkward opportunities.
Wisdom:
Sounds like you would maybe avoid certain places. What's like one place you would never eat at, even if they offered you like money to eat at?
Seth:
McDonald's. Yeah.
Kat:
(gasp)
Seth:
Yeah. I'm sorry.
Kat:
That hurts me. McDonald's is my guilty pleasure, go to late at night, or driving home at 2:00 AM food, for sure.
Seth:
I get it. I get it. And it's all good for you, but not for me. [inaudible 00:04:47]
Kat:
Technically, it sounds like you don't get it, but I'm going to let it slide.
Jenna:
For me, I would not be sponsored by Burger King. I love McDonald's, but Burger King? Or maybe Wendy's, no offense if they're listening, but the fact that you can... It's scary that you can buy like 20 chicken nuggets for $4. That's scary to me. I don't know.
Wisdom:
If you guys are watching live right now, leave us a comment. Let us know what you would never eat, even if somebody pays you.
Jenna:
What about you, Wisdom?
Seth:
What about you guys? Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah, and Kat.
Wisdom:
Mine is Taco Bell.
Jenna:
Oh yeah. I'm with you.
Seth:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's always a high risk with Taco Bell, so yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Kat:
Well, I feel like you guys have the bar set higher than me about this. I feel like there's a situation for everything. You know what I'm saying? Some places, you never anticipated yourself being, and yet there you are.
Jenna:
You're so optimistic.
Seth:
You're so optimistic.
Kat:
Or a politician, I suppose. I'm not trying to rule out any potential sponsorships. I'm just kidding. But actually... Okay. Someone said White Castle.
Jenna:
Oh yep, yep.
Kat:
Someone said, "You know you love the McDonald's." Someone else said no to Burger King, maybe. Burger King seems popular. I will say the one time I've been there probably in the past 10 years of my life, I tried to order the chicken fries for nostalgic reasons.
Jenna:
Yep, yep.
Kat:
Didn't have them. So, it seemed like that was it for me and Burger King.
Jenna:
That's it. Done.
Wisdom:
I eat a lot of weird stuff. I could eat cow intestines, tripe, cow tongue, pig feet. Why I draw the line with Taco Bell is like... If I feel like the food that I can find in a dumpster might be better to eat, that's where I'm like, " I'm not going to eat that."
Jenna:
Dude. That's true. I feel that.
Seth:
Wow. That's like really interesting though. What do you normally eat tripe and all those things in? Because we love pho, that's one of our favorite foods.
Jenna:
The first time we had it was with tripe.
Seth:
... was with tripe. And I didn't love it. So, we're like more like the beef brisket and maybe the meatball pho. But what do you like to eat those like pigs feet and tripe in?
Wisdom:
I would say that pho is a good way to eat it. There's also like a spicy way. I think it's like popular maybe like just with Koreans, but yeah. There's like a spicy seasoning that they'd be with it. One time, I went to New York, actually for Paul galoshes live record... not live recording, studio recording session. And I took some of my colleagues to this Korean barbecue place. It was all you can eat. It was like 35 bucks or something, but you can order whatever you want on this barbecue menu.
Jenna:
Nice.
Wisdom:
And they had everything from intestines, the crazy... squid. And I have some videos of this. You put it on the grill, because you grill it on your table yourself.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
You put it on the grill. And then, it just starts just moving. The intestine starts shrinking and stuff. It kind of looked like a worm.
Jenna:
Eww. Oh, oh.
Kat:
All right. People are leaving the stream. Sorry, I brought up the topic.
Wisdom:
I think we're gaining viewers actually, Kat.
Kat:
Believe it or not guys, this is not usually a food review show, but maybe it is now. I don't know. It seems possible.
Jenna:
Oh my goodness.
Seth:
Oh my goodness.
Jenna:
It's hilarious.
Seth:
So, can we tell you about our most exciting Instagram moment of all time?
Wisdom:
Oh yeah.
Kat:
Please.
Seth:
Here we go. Just because you brought up Korean barbecue. Do you guys know who Roy Choi is by chance?
Wisdom:
No.
Kat:
Mm-mm (negative).
Seth:
Okay. So, he started the food truck in...
Kat:
It's called Kogi.
Seth:
... LA called Kogi. He's like the most... He like started Korean barbecue. And he's friends with John Fabro. And they made the movie, Chef, together. Have you seen the movie Chef?
Wisdom:
Oh.
Kat:
Oh, Uh-huh (affirmative).
Seth:
Yeah. So, he was the inspiration for the story. It's really his story. And they made this other TV show called the Chef Show. And it's so amazing. It's on Netflix. But we got Instagram messaged back by Roy Choi. And it's like the most exciting thing.
Jenna:
It's just like on our stories like, "The Chef Show has changed my life."
Seth:
It is so good. And he messaged us back. And it was insane. So, that's our most exciting Instagram story.
Jenna:
Yeah. Yeah. They did.
Kat:
Wow.
Seth:
I want to be his friend. Yeah, we want to be his friend.
Wisdom:
That's awesome.
Seth:
So, if you guys ever meet Roy Choi, please hook it up.
Jenna:
Yeah. But he's like super cool. And we learned a lot about Korean food specifically because he... like he cooks like the... Do you ever eat, what is that? It's like a certain organs of like a sea urchin, umi or something.
Seth:
Oh yeah.
Wisdom:
Oh yeah.
Seth:
I think it's uni.
Jenna:
Uni?
Seth:
Uni.
Jenna:
Yeah. He makes so many dishes with that and it's crazy. It's crazy. But it was super interesting.
Seth:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Mm. I miss uni. So, I can talk about food for hours.
Seth:
Yeah. I'm so sorry.
Jenna:
Right? This is not why we're on.
Kat:
Or is it? I mean, I don't know.
Seth:
It might be, it might be. I don't know.
Kat:
No, I'm just kidding.
Wisdom:
Well, you guys actually have traveled a ton, like living on the road. I'm sure you've had a lot of interesting food, whether it's by choice or that was the only thing available.
Jenna:
Yep.
Seth:
Oh, man.
Jenna:
Oh my gosh.
Wisdom:
What's been like the most interesting thing you've had on the road while on tour?
Seth:
Oh, my goodness.
Jenna:
Oh my.
Seth:
I think one of the things that we really learned, especially... It's super interesting, because what you're going into normally doesn't always indicate the quality of food, if that makes sense. And one of the most incredible street tacos I've ever had was in LA. And literally, it was a pickup truck that they pulled out a white folding table, and just set it on the side of the street.
Seth:
And yeah, it was literally insanely good, but it was like I might get food poisoning, but it's so good.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
So, that was like... It's really interesting how traveling in that way kind of changes your perspective on like vibe versus quality, and it doesn't necessarily correlate, if that makes sense.
Jenna:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I feel like... I'm trying to think of like the worst food that we had on tour, and I can't think of anything. But one of my favorite things I still dream about is there's a thing called a Kolachi in Texas. And t's like from... It's like a Czech pastry. And it's usually filled with like fruit and stuff, but it's also can be filled like with brisket and cheese. So, it's like this fluffy...
Seth:
Kind of like a donut.
Jenna:
... donut, but it's filled with like...
Seth:
... brisket...
Jenna:
... brisket.
Seth:
Smoked brisket.
Jenna:
And I think about it a lot sometimes.
Seth:
Yeah, yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yes.
Jenna:
That's good stuff.
Seth:
Yeah, for sure.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Wow. That's super interesting. So, you guys have literally lived in your camper, traveling all over the place.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
And I know, probably starting out, you didn't really know what was going to happen on the road, how long you were going to be on the road. What made you guys even like go for it and do that?
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah, you got it.
Seth:
Yeah. So basically, we got married in 2000... What year was it?
Jenna:
'17.
Seth:
'17, so like coming up four years ago this month. And we kind of had like the normal life. We had good jobs, kind of like the American dream. We had a house. We had the 401k. We had everything that we thought we should have and more money than we knew what to do with, and all of the things that like is what you're supposed to have. And we basically realized, within six months of being married, that we have all the things we're supposed to, but were incredibly unhappy and kind of passionless.
Seth:
And basically, we just decided like we love adventure, and we want to see the country, and we can play music. So, we might as well see if we can travel and make... break even basically. And that kind of started us down the path of selling off all of our possessions, buying equipment, buying a van and a camper. And then, we basically went on tour that summer and never stopped for three and a half years.
Wisdom:
Wow.
Seth:
So... which is insane. Yeah.
Jenna:
It's kind of like that wholly discontent, like I think there's something more that we can do. And it's not like having our normal lives was anything wrong with that, but it was just like really not a good fit for us. So yeah, it was like that wholly discontent that drove us to do something that most people would say is kind of crazy.
Seth:
Insane. Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah. But here we are.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
It worked out.
Jenna:
We survived.
Kat:
Well... And I guess kind of full circle, now you guys are sort of in between being on the road, like with COVID obviously. But then, beyond that, you guys have relocated more or less to Nashville.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yes.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Kat:
So maybe share with people what prompted that decision. And what have you seen as pros and cons now, having experienced so many different ways of life, I guess?
Jenna:
Yeah, absolutely.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Man. That is a great question. I'd say, starting with last year, we were on the road, and basically making our way across the south when COVID happened. And we ended up living in a church parking lot for three months.
Wisdom:
Oh, wow.
Jenna:
And that was like a really emotional low, as it was for everybody. But...
Seth:
Right.
Jenna:
It's like, when you're confined to a house, your own house, you have to stay at home and your home is 13 feet long. It's kind of like...
Seth:
Yeah, we were kind of homeless literally, like in a weird sense, and always was like, "Are we overstaying our welcome? But also, we have nowhere to go."
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Wow.
Seth:
And that was kind of really disorienting, but also an incredible time, because we made our record at that church. And, I mean, that's how we met you guys. Everything has been so amazing since that moment.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
But then, when the world started opening up a little bit and we were able to go back on tour with outdoor concerts and social distance Sunday services and stuff, we went back on the road. And it just wasn't the same. We had some great experiences, but it felt like harder. I don't know. It's hard to go... When you don't have a bathroom of your own, and you have to shower in someone's house, it gets difficult when there's like a virus all over the place, or when people are scared, or don't want you around, or they cancel on you last minute.
Jenna:
And people just, in general, were like really sharp too. Everyone had some... Everyone had an opinion and everyone wanted to share it with us because we haven't heard their opinion yet.
Seth:
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Jenna:
And it kind of like came to a head that we were in the Midwest touring, and we had a cancellation, and kind of some persecution. And we're just like, "Dude, I'm just kind of done with touring. Maybe we need to quit, like forever, or like come off the road."
Jenna:
And we were like, "Let's move to Bozeman Montana because that's like our favorite place in the world." But we had an immediate trip in Nashville the next week. And we got a call from our PR manager. And she was like, "Hey, so an artist brought COVID to all the media outlets. So, you can still come, but you can't get interviewed or anything. But we'll set up some... You can hang out with some artists and producers that we set up if you want to still come."
Jenna:
And we're like, "Okay, let's go, and basically went there. And we were just praying, going into it like, "Okay God, can it either be pretty clear that this is open or pretty clear that this is closed? Is Nashville even an option? And basically we came down here and was like... By the end of it, we're like we have to stay.
Seth:
Yeah. We had a place to live, and every-
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
It just was all... It just all worked out.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
It was insane.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah. If you had a place that had like its own bathroom and shower...
Seth:
Yeah, yeah. We have a bathroom
Jenna:
We have a bathroom. Yeah.
Seth:
It's like six feet from the bed. So, it's great.
Jenna:
We don't have to go outside to use it.
Seth:
Yes. It's crazy. You had to walk through a parking lot. Yeah. I mean, it's insane.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Wow.
Seth:
So yeah. So, that's... And I feel too like there's so many struggles that come with touring full-time. But one of the big ones was like it was really hard to hold on to the community too. And we just felt like we needed to be somewhere, like for once, and be there long enough for people to know us, and also to know them, and yeah, be supported in that way.
Seth:
Because, I mean, really, over the past three and a half years, it's been hard to do that.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah. We said like our life was just a constant goodbye, you know? And it feels good to not be that, for once.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Jenna:
And we were told like, there's something really good about having our names on a mailbox, even though we... our names are not on our mailbox. But you know? This is my home.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Jenna:
We still feel kind of like it's getting hot in Nashville and I'm ready to skedaddle to...
Seth:
Yeah. That Northwest thing's real good.
Jenna:
Yeah, like let's go to Seattle or something. Yeah. So, I feel like... It's like we have to figure out how to be content here, because it's like all the things we've been wanting. But yet, we don't... We're not able to go travel and live on the road, and live that hippie life. It's like you kind of just have to choose and be content with who you are.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
So, how do you find contentment? You know? We have a lot of artists that listen to our podcasts and watch these videos. And I think that... A lot of times, that's really like the biggest struggle is finding contentment in where they are in that season of life, and that journey as an artist, especially with that comparison game of seeing what other people are doing and the fear of missing out. You know? So, how do you find your contentment as an artist and songwriter?
Seth:
Gosh, I... So, I'm just going to preface this by, we had a couple of meetings with some artists that are much more successful than us. And they struggle just as much as we do with it. And I literally thought that like... And this is me being naive, but I thought that there is probably someone... or thought that there's an arrival moment or something where it's like, "Okay. Finally, I've seen enough success in this career that I know what the future holds somewhat or like..."
Seth:
But that has just become absolutely clear that no one has any idea what's going on ever, like literally. It's record to record. It's day to day. It's tour to tour. There's no guarantees in this industry at all. And so, sitting there with these people, it's like, "Okay, you don't know what's going to happen so I can be okay with not knowing what's going to happen either." Because it's like... So, if like letting go of that has been kind of a big thing, just being okay with like, "I don't know what the future holds and that's literally okay because no one does." It's a good starting point, I think.
Jenna:
Yeah. And also, I was just thinking as like... We say this quote all the time from the office, where Andy Bernard is like, "I wish someone would tell you it's the good old days before they're gone. You know?" Is that... I think [inaudible 00:20:43].
Seth:
Yeah, when you're in the good old days.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Jenna:
And it's like I'm already missing the times when we spent in our camper. Because it's like, "Oh, we were just out there. We were just playing shows and just..."
Wisdom:
Just doing it.
Jenna:
"... changing lives. And it's so great." And then, I know there'll be another day a couple years from now, or a couple of decades, where it's going to be like, "Man. We were just putting any... trying to figure out how to afford to live. And we were living in Nashville. And we were getting coffee with all these people who are our heroes. And man, those are the good old days."
Jenna:
And I just feel like it just takes some presence in the moment. It's actually more fun to struggle for what you want than to actually get it, I think.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Like the struggle of like living paycheck to paycheck, making the record because you worked at a department store in all your free time, and you just put that money together and do your best. You know? I just feel like...
Seth:
There's something magical about it.
Jenna:
There's something magical about the struggle. And I feel like we just want to arrive.
Seth:
Yeah, and wish it away. But like, this is the... When you're in this, this is like... This is what we do it for. I don't know. This is the magic of it is doing it, even though it sucks sometimes.
Jenna:
Right.
Seth:
You know? But yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
That's true. Yeah.
Kat:
Well... And it feels like, in each season of anybody's life, you're always looking back at what you had. And you're like, "Oh, things were so much better than." Not to be over spiritual, but like the Israelites in the desert, when they're finally like, "God, it was so much better when we were in Egypt."
Seth:
Oh my God.
Kat:
And God's like...
Jenna:
Are you kidding?
Kat:
... Why? Why do I tolerate you people. But there's this tendency to always look back and say, things were so much better than, and then this tendency to always look ahead and say, "And things will be so much better than they are now," when in reality, there's always going to be pros and cons of each one of those individual seasons. And they're going to be different from each other.
Jenna:
Yep.
Kat:
You know?
Seth:
Yes.
Jenna:
Yep.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
But do you guys feel like part of... at least for you, in your scope of things, part of contentment... Do you feel like that's somewhat wrapped up in how you set or even talk about expectation?
Seth:
Oh gosh. I think one of the things that I've personally been working on really hard is to not live out the narrative that I play in my head. Because the reality is, every time, it never adds up. So, okay. So, when we play a show, especially lately, especially being in Nashville... If you live in Nashville, you kind of understand that it feels like every time you do anything, the potential for ? your life detain change is humongous. Right? Because it's like, "Oh my gosh. Someone could see me that could literally change my life." And then, on the other side of it, it's like, "And someone could see me, and literally ruin my career."
Seth:
So, it's like, I feel like the pendulum possibilities swing so high. But in reality, the way that you change your life is just by doing things consistently over and over and over again. And the reality of someone changing your life is... It's probably not going to happen, whatever. You know?
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
So, my struggle is to literally be, "Okay. The reality is it's probably not going to be as good as I believe it in my head. And it's probably not going to be as worse... as bad as I believe it is going to be in my head. So, I should just experience it, because that's way better."
Jenna:
Yeah, yeah. That's the truth.
Seth:
But it's really hard.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
It's so hard.
Jenna:
I feel like we're victims of being big dreamers. And that has dire consequences when you're wrong. But I feel like it took us being hurt by our expectations to...
Seth:
Over and over and over again.
Jenna:
... yeah, to be like, "Okay. This is probably not going to be best case scenario. And it's also not going to be worst case scenario. It's probably going to be somewhere in the middle. Let's just let it happen."
Seth:
And that's good enough too. You know?
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Seth:
I feel like that with our last record too, because it was like... It feels like... It felt like there... it could be life-changing. And it literally has been life-changing but not in the necessarily the way that I thought it would be life-changing.
Seth:
But the way that it has been life-changing is way better than what I expected it to be anyway. So normally, it ends up being what we need it to be.
Jenna:
Yes.
Seth:
And it's not as exciting sometimes is what you want it to be, but that's okay.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
That's okay. That's life, right? I don't know.
Wisdom:
Yeah. There's definitely like the grind of the everyday life that... Sometimes, it can feel mundane. Even like writing songs can feel mundane. You know?
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
And it feels like a grind.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
But then, when you have that one song that just hits, and you know something about it is different, and people react to it different, and then it makes everything else that you did worth it, leading up to that point. You know?
Seth:
Always.
Jenna:
That's the truth.
Seth:
Always. And Mike, the thing that I'm starting to realize more and more is, what's so cool is the opportunities that a lot of these things open up. And making songs is amazing and I love it, but the relationships that we're getting to make and hanging out with the coolest people in the world and all this stuff... the other things that have opened up that I didn't even think about, it was more of just like, "Man, I hope a song gets a million streams or whatever, or like we get to go on this bigger tour or whatever."
Seth:
It's like, that's really cool. But the things I didn't think about are like the best parts of it. You know? I don't know.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
So, it's just kind of like reframing it. Oh man, we've been talking a lot about, especially spiritually, what winning and losing is.
Seth:
And one of the big examples, like when Jesus died on the cross, it literally looked like failure or looked like losing, but it was actually winning. And so, we've been trying to like reframe everything through that lens. Where are we winning where we're actually losing? And where are we losing, where we're actually winning? And like...
Jenna:
Or when it looks like you're losing or-
Seth:
Right.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Or where it looks like losing our failing. And even like... One of the things I think I said a couple of weeks ago, it's like, there's no trophy for being humble. There's no reward there. And that can hurt a lot, but like... So, just like trying to reframe a lot of things. I don't know.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah. I agree.
Seth:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
I think also, just from my perspective, I see a lot of artists kind of having this dream of moving to Nashville, the Mecca of Christian music industry. You know? And when they do, or when they're trying to get there, and maybe they're doing it even digitally, or they're reaching out to people in Nashville in the industry, I also... When I see that happening, because I've been on that side, working at a label and being the person that people will reach out to.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
I wonder what would happen if artists that want to make those connections and get a deal or whatever, the successes that they're trying to go for, what if they change their perspective and their approach from, "What can you do for me?" To "What can I do for you?" You know?
Wisdom:
I think changing just even that approach... Because it is so much about relationships and not trying to like, "I need to acquire a million streams, or I need to win a double award."
Jenna:
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Wisdom:
But you have to invest into those relationships. So yeah. What have you guys experienced along those lines?
Jenna:
Yes. Oh, man. First of all, I just got to say, when you said that, we all went like, "Oh yeah," all three of us was like, "He's speaking the truth." When we went down to Nashville in January, we changed our perspective as best as we could, because you're right. People come down here and they're like, "I'm just going to get a record deal. And I'm going to meet this person. I'm going to get a manager." We came down with like a hundred day plan. So, we were doing that, where it's like, "All right. First month, we need to write this many songs and we need to have this many meetings."
Jenna:
And it was like super intentional, but holding an intention with like, "I want to be a neighbor to people here." Because we've been on the road for so long, it's been like, we blow through a church and it's like, "Hi, we're here. Here's our concert. Thanks for the money. Bye." And that's what it sometimes ends up being. I mean, obviously, that's a simplification. It's like lots of talks, and stories, and relationships. So, it's obviously way deeper that.
Kat:
No. I totally get what you mean, Jenna.
Jenna:
Yes, thank you. So, if anyone misinterprets that, I'll just send them to you guys. But when you're just living in a camper, it can't be like, "Hey yeah, I'll fix your lawnmower for you," or, "Yeah, I have... We take film photography. We'll come to your concert and just take pictures for you. Or do you need a video?" Or, "Hey, here's some advice" or "Yeah. I'd love to show up to your show."
Jenna:
We haven't been able to do that for three years, and I'm not trying to practice false humility or anything, but that's what we really tried to do when we got here is like, "What can I do for people? Because we have skills and caring energy that we can give to people." Obviously, it's like super tainted with selfishness. We can't take that out of the picture, but it's like... I feel like, since we've been down here, we've been trying our hardest to just give, and like, "Oh, you're going on tour? Here, have some money that you need." Or like, "Oh, you need pictures? Let's take pictures for you." And this is not a humble brag. I'm really trying not to. But I feel like we've just been blessed in this insane way by not being focused on us. Like yeah, we have goals, but like, what do the people around us need, I guess? It's... Do you...
Seth:
Oh, I totally... I... Yes. I totally agree. And like, I feel like, yeah, that idea of not focusing. So like, for example, this last week wasn't the easiest week of our life. And we ended up for an artist friend. We went to her show. We did some videos and we took some pictures. And the coolest part about being there was I literally didn't think about myself, at all. It was literally just to serve our friend.... And it just gives me... us, I think, so much life to love other people. And I think the truth is, is that honestly, in this town, there's so much stuff going on, literally. And really, I think most artists just want someone to show up and care about them.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
And it's like amazing to be able to do that, literally. Because I know how it feels to be on tour for whatever, or play a show in a town, and like people say they will come or they don't, and just being the person that says they're going to come and actually come. And I feel like that's invaluable. And not like I'm here... I'm not here for me. It's like, I'm literally here for you, because I want to love you. And you're amazing. You deserve people to show up. So, that's kind of like been our focus honestly, is just to love other people as unconditionally as we humanly can, in a simple world, if that makes sense. But yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Anyway.
Jenna:
And I would say that any artist that's hoping to come to Nashville for making it in music, maybe examine your motivations and see if that's something that you can try. Because you're right. It's like... I think coming down with like a one-track mind of, "I want to be famous," that is going to leave you empty, for sure.
Jenna:
And even though we could be hungrier, and be kicking and scratching and climbing after success, I feel better that we'll spend a Friday night taking pictures for a friend, or helping someone move, or... You know? It's just, it feels better.
Seth:
It is better.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
And the thing that's crazy is that, in reality, probably the majority of people are coming down to get something out of... for this. So, you're going to be in the minority. You're just going to be different. And that's awesome. You know? Right. Yeah.
Wisdom:
Yeah. It makes you stand out.
Kat:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Jenna:
Absolutely.
Kat:
Well, I know-
Wisdom:
And I think...
Kat:
Oh, go ahead. Wisdom.
Wisdom:
Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Kat:
Well, I was just going to... I know we're running out of time with you guys, but I think that something we talk to indie artists a lot about is finding other avenues or ways to not only supplement your income, but other skills, things you can do on the road, stuff like that.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah.
Kat:
How... Because I know you guys... Is it called wonder film?
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yeah. Wonder Film.
Kat:
Yeah. So, you guys launched that separately, which is like a film photography subset of what you guys do. How did you decide this feels like the right avenue for us to continue working on our music, continue building these relationships, but also provide a supplemental income and it's a passion?
Jenna:
Yes.
Seth:
Yeah. Literally, it's your guys' fault. So...
Jenna:
That's true.
Seth:
Yeah. It literally is. So basically, when we did our last record, we brought you guys on to help with like social media and all that stuff. And yeah, you guys helped us figure out what we wanted our social media to be like. And that was the thing we realized at that time. I think we had some film pictures taken of us. And we're like, "This is like really different, and it looks really cool." And it kind of like made us different than a lot of other people. And then, we kind of fell in love with it, and were like, "Well, e have to take film pictures to like have enough content to have all of our pictures be filmed."
Seth:
And so, that kind of spiraled. And then, as you guys said, it takes like about a year of being consistent before... And that's kind of like how, all of a sudden, it was like, "Oh, people are noticing." And we're like, "I think we're getting better at this. What if we started taking pictures of other people and other things?" And then... So, it was just like totally natural, and just kind of happened. And then... Yeah. Then, we came down here and we're like... I mean, everyone loves film pictures. They're so vibe-y. So... Yeah. So yeah, that's literally how it happened.
Wisdom:
That's very cool.
Seth:
It was very organic, if that makes sense.
Jenna:
Yeah. And so, we've just taken pictures of artists that we know and locations, and just posted our favorite ones on there. We actually just got our first inquiry about taking pictures. And I didn't read it for two weeks, so I missed out on it.
Seth:
Fail. Yeah, we failed.
Jenna:
But yeah. I think someday it'll be a... It's for sure helpful to us, but I think someday it'll be some kind of income or something, so...
Seth:
Totally.
Jenna:
Yeah. But the coolest thing is we show up to people's concerts because we're going to help them take pictures. Someone's puppy. He sounds cute. We show up to a concert or something to take pictures. And then, we ended up making like five to 10 new friends.
Seth:
New friends. Yeah.
Jenna:
So, it's like really cool.
Seth:
Yes.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
I did not even know that you can still buy film, so...
Jenna:
Yes, you can.
Wisdom:
I don't even know where to buy film, actually.
Jenna:
I think all online.
Seth:
Yeah, it's mostly online. It's a big deal. It's like coming back. Like literally...
Wisdom:
I thought you were going to say like, "Yeah, that street corner over there."
Seth:
Walmart does. Walmart does sell one film type, but it's kind of crazy. So, there's like point and shoot cameras, like from the nineties. Some of them are literally like a thousand dollars on eBay. It's like a thing, like for real. It's coming back.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
So yeah. You'd better jump on that train.
Wisdom:
I'm going to have to get mine out.
Seth:
Literally, you probably could.
Kat:
Do you have one? That actually feels like very on brand for Wisdom to be like, "Actually, I also have a film photography business I've never told anyone about."
Wisdom:
Last year, I actually found in a box one of those disposable cameras...
Seth:
Oh my goodness.
Wisdom:
... with film still in it.
Seth:
Oh, did you finish it?
Wisdom:
No, I was like, I don't even know what to do with it.
Seth:
Oh, you got to. That's also coming back. Some artists, what they'll do is they'll give... It's still brilliant. They'll give like the first five rows of a show a disposable camera, and they take pictures. And then, they give them back. And then, they just... They develop them and they use that for content. So, disposable cameras are really a big deal that too. So yeah.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Kat:
That's really cool. I love the idea of passing them out at shows and being like, "Please just drop these back off at the end."
Seth:
Yeah, it's super cool.
Kat:
But really cool idea.
Seth:
Yeah. So yeah. Not cheap though, not cheap. Yeah, it's not a cheap... Yeah. But it's cool. So yeah.
Wisdom:
Well, thanks guys for being on our Instagram live...
Seth:
Of course.
Wisdom:
... and our podcast, and just sharing about your journey, and giving some tips on film. If people want to follow you, what's the best way to do that?
Seth:
Yeah. I'd say Instagram at him and her worship. Yeah. That would probably be...
Wisdom:
Cool.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
That's where all the fun stuff happens. So...
Jenna:
As in fun stuff happens.
Seth:
Yeah.
Wisdom:
And do you have anything upcoming that you want to share with people
Seth:
Honestly, no.
Jenna:
Not too much that we can share yet.
Seth:
Yeah. We're just working towards our next record, but no, no really anything in solid, like...
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
It's all just very exciting in the future, but nothing really yet.
Jenna:
So, follow us.
Seth:
Yes.
Jenna:
And you'll find out.
Seth:
Eventually, something will happen.
Wisdom:
That's a good strategy.
Kat:
Yeah. Coming soon.
Seth:
Coming soon. Yes, yes. I love it. Oh man.
Jenna:
Awesome.
Kat:
Well, you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for inviting
Seth:
Yes. We love you guys. Thanks for being our friends.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Seth:
Yes, yes.
Kat:
Of course. You guys are my real life friends.
Seth:
Literally, it's amazing.
Jenna:
I know. I know.
Seth:
It's amazing.
Kat:
It's fun.
Seth:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna:
It is fun.
Seth:
Yeah.
Kat:
Thank you guys so much for being here. Truly. I know that people... I've already seen one comment where somebody has already looked up your music during this thing.
Seth:
Oh, nice.
Jenna:
Oh, nice. That's cool.
Kat:
Yeah, which is really cool.
Seth:
Awesome.
Jenna:
Yeah.
Kat:
But yeah, we'll have to have you back when you have something new in the works or coming up officially and all that. And yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Seth:
Thank you guys.
Jenna:
Absolutely, thanks for having us.
Seth:
Yeah. It's been great.
Kat:
Yeah. Thanks everybody for tuning in. As always, we'll be back next Wednesday, same time, same place. See you guys then. Bye guys.
Jenna:
Bye.
Seth:
Bye.
