Wisdom Wednesday feat. Stephen McWhirter

Welcome to Wisdom Wednesday, a weekly series where we chat with some of our favorite artists! This week we get the chance to have an open conversation with Stephen McWhirter about defining success, songwriting, and redemption! You can check out Stephen’s music here.

Want to be a guest on the show or have someone you wish we’d have on? Email us at hello@marketingwithwisdom.com.

Kat:
What's up, what's up, what's up? Happy Wednesday everybody. Hope you all are doing well. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. I feel like a TikToker using my headphones. Trying to work on the audio. Do any of you use TikTok actively?

Wisdom:
Hey.

Kat:
Hi. I'm trying out my headphones today.

Wisdom:
Oh nice.

Kat:
Oh, our guest feels very eager. He's commenting, "Let me in." Should we go for it or should we make him wait?

Wisdom:
Hey, it's up to you. You have full control.

Kat:
All right. I'm going to bring him in guys. We're so excited to bring Stephen on today. If you've never met him or heard his music, you are in for a treat. He is a delightful human and hopefully-

Wisdom:
Buckle your seat belts

Kat:
Yeah, buckle... Who knows what we'll end up talking about on this, to be honest. So welcome Stephen McWhirter.

Stephen:
Hi. What's up?

Kat:
I can't.

Wisdom:
I love the entrance.

Stephen:
You're welcome.

Kat:
Wow. Well, welcome Stephen to our Wisdom Wednesday. I'm assuming you're going to bring all the wisdom today. Is that safe?

Stephen:
I'm to bring all the Wednesday.

Kat:
Oh. Great. Big midweek energy.

Stephen:
Yes. Ready to go.

Kat:
Well, I guess Stephen, to start with maybe you should just tell people a little bit about who you are.

Stephen:
Yeah. Hey Simon Hall. Sorry. Somebody I actually know jumped on here besides you guys. So yes, my name is Stephen McWhirter. I am a human being. I have faith hands. No, I am a songwriter, worship leader. I've been doing this for a long time and I was with a band, Iron Bell, for a long time back in the day. And I've been doing this solo kind of ministry thing for about, I don't know, almost three years now and jumped in with you guys, kind of at the onset of that. But prior to all that, I think the more powerful part of it is really, I grew up an evangelist's son and I traveled from church camp to church camp. And the man I saw on Sunday morning and the one that saw in private was not the same. So I literally saw my father be physically abusive with my mom, not to get heavy, and then get up and preach about Jesus on Sunday morning.

Stephen:
And I was like, "Okay, if God's real. He's not good. So I don't want anything to do with this Jesus character or whatever." So by the time I was 13 I was smoking and drinking and marijuana and all that kind of stuff, a cliche. And then cocaine by the time I'm 15 and pills and I'm selling drugs. At 15. Oh my God. I have a 17 year old now and a 14 year old. They're like, you can't even get a bad word around them without them being like, "Hey!" They're just really cool. So they're amazing. So it's crazy at 15 that I was doing that. But then by the time I'm 17, I'm a full out crystal meth addict. I'm using crystal meth every day for almost six years during this time.

Stephen:
I'm the guy that literally hates Christianity, like would cuss you out if you mentioned the name Jesus around me. And I remember some people being really burdened from my salvation at this time. A lot of people told me about how they were interceding in prayer on my behalf, which is just a churchy way of saying they were praying for me. And I remember somebody telling me how they literally pulled over on the side of the road, uncontrollably crying, praying for me to come to Jesus. And I always tell people that we are such instinctively selfish people in nature that if you ever feel the need to pull over on the side of the road and start like, boogers out of the nose, ugly crying over somebody coming to Jesus, that is the holy spirit, right?

Stephen:
Wooing you to intercede on behalf of that person. And so I always say that God wants to do something through you as much as he wants to do, or he wants to do something in you rather as much as he wants to do something through you. It's like there's something important about you getting on your knees and praying for that person, and not to get off on the side, but having traveled as much as we have prior to the pandemic, 150 days a year to ministry, seeing people come to Jesus. It's been amazing, but I would have people always come up to me crying, being like, "Will you pray for my husband? Will you pray for my son? Will you pray for my brother, my..." You know what I mean? "My wife, whatever."

Stephen:
And I would always say to them, there's a reason why you're so broken talking to me about this. It's because the Lord has put this person on your heart. There's something about you, according to this person because the holy spirit is giving you, I don't know, a tenderness towards them that probably a lot of other people don't have. So what's up [Cline 00:05:53] Music? How y'all doing? Garrett or whoever it is on the other end of that. So yeah. Anyways, that sad note and we're back. They were praying for me. People were praying for me and during this time somebody came and gave me this book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel if you guys ever heard of it. Having told you how against Christianity I was, the fact that I accepted this book, it is the most miraculous part of the story. I didn't claw somebodies eyes out. You know what I mean? I accepted it.

Stephen:
I was like, "Cool." And fast forward, I'm living in a house full of musicians and drugs. I literally have pot and drugs on the side table next to me. And it's three o'clock in the morning. Nobody's playing softly and quietly in the corner. But it's just the most seemingly impossible place for somebody to get saved. And it's the kindness of God to meet a wounded pastor's kid in a place like that. Right? And reading this book, I encountered the presence of the living God. I don't know how else to say it. I've told this story, gosh, umpteen thousand times, I don't know. And it never gets old because it was this moment where God poked through reality. You know what I'm saying? And we begin to have this internal dialogue that went something like this.

Stephen:
"Stephen, I'm real. I'm good. I have a purpose for your life." Sorry, wait a second. Kurt Vernon, what's up? That guy is seven feet tall. I weigh over 200 pounds and he picks me up like a little baby doll and throws me around. So here I am in this room, God's saying these things to me in a thought. "I'm real. I'm good. I got a purpose for your life." And I remember thinking what I'm thinking now, which is those sound like Christian things to say. It's just kind of vague, but God has a way of taking something you've heard a million times as simple as I love you and if you can hear him saying, well, now hear him say it, really hear him say it, it unlocks something that's been dormant inside you your entire life. And you... I remember that moment just being like, "Okay, God, I want to give you my life, but I don't know how."

Stephen:
So let's do it. I just remember the thought of the Lord being like, "You won't do it. I will" kind of a thing. and Christianity 101 I took him at his word. Believed him, like believe I'm breathing air right now kind of belief. Gave my life to Jesus in that room. I knew all the stuff to do, I guess. And I went from addiction to redemption for meth addict, to worship leader. And I literally quit everything overnight. And a lot of people are like, "Whoa, that's crazy."

Stephen:
I've even had some people in addiction recovery stuff say "That doesn't work like that. You can't tell people it happened overnight." You're going to take it up with the Lord. I don't... It is what it is. Literally I quit everything overnight. I always tell people though, be encouraged because in the gospels, Jesus never heals anyone the same way twice. Every story has a purpose. And for whatever reason, mine was overnight. He had plenty of other issues to work on for years. Anyways, I know it's a long story, but I think to know me, you have to hear that story. And so, I think a year later I got hired as a worship leader at a very, very hard up church because in case you didn't know, former meth addict, doesn't look good on a job resume.

Wisdom:
Yeah. I imagine it doesn't get you very far.

Stephen:
Trustworthy.

Wisdom:
Wow, man. That's amazing. Wow. So how did you know that you were called to do this? Be a worship leader, write songs.

Stephen:
I've always loved music ever since I was a kid, like I said. Even during those drug induced days, I was in metal bands touring and... And here's something. My last name means, McWhirter, son of the harpist. It's literally that 2 Kings 3 where it says, "While the harpist played, the hand of the Lord fell." That's like, all this stuff is like, God literally put it in my name. It's crazy. Right? But it meant even on my family crest there's a, which is like a Scottish crest, thousands of years old, got a harp at the top. It says at the bottom, [foreign language 00:10:35]. God be praised. Literally in my family history, going back to Scotland is this thing about giving God glory through music. It's in my freaking DNA. It's crazy in my story. Right?

Stephen:
But I think it took a while for me to understand that it wasn't about being a rockstar. Wasn't about being famous. It wasn't about success in that way. It was really learning that the Lord put a desire in me before I was even born and really getting to what that is. Even in Christian music, you have to be careful of falling into the trap of growing a platform versus really learning to minister before the Lord in a place where nobody's watching first. Right? So I think what... When I came out of that addiction and stuff, I had no plans of doing any music. I was just like, "Hey, I'm sober. Maybe I can get a job delivering pizzas." By the way I did so don't hold on your seats about that. I did get that job delivering [inaudible 00:11:42].

Stephen:
And somebody called me up and was like, "Hey, there's this church. I think you should try being a worship leader." And I was like, "I don't know about that." I mean, I've been playing music in bars all my life and just craziness. And I couldn't even see me doing that. Growing up a pastor's kid, the last thing I thought I would do in a billion years is any kind of ministry. You know what I mean? And I remember going to this church and them being like... It was one of those really, they really needed somebody. It was like they had a very old school, traditional service. And then they had this brand new contemporary service. Which I remember being in metal bands it's like... Screaming every night, craziness. And then being slid a list of the songs I'm allowed to do. And I think the coolest thing on this church's listed songs I was allowed to do was I Can Only Imagine.

Wisdom:
That's edgy.

Stephen:
But if you The encounter I had, you actually were excited to do it. And I was like, "Oh, I get to sing these songs to God. That's cool." And somebody's going to pay me. What? So that was just the beginning of that. It was a really kind of a, I'm going to do this. Really? Fine. I'll give it a shot. And now here we are 20 years later and I'm still doing worship.

Kat:
Wow. What I guess now, Stephen, how do you define success now for what you're doing? How do you see that now differently?

Stephen:
I eat Grubhub every day.

Kat:
That's success. The ability to afford Grubhub delivery.

Stephen:
Actually I'm [crosstalk 00:13:21]. When I [Grubhubbed 00:13:21] Walgreens is when I knew I had a problem and I was like, "No. I got to stop."

Kat:
You really do have a GrubHub issue. And if you guys have not seen Stephen's Instagram videos about GrubHub or whoever you use, Postmates or whatever, it's a lot.

Stephen:
It's bad.

Kat:
They've got a fan in you.

Stephen:
Yeah. They have a lazy person. Yeah. Success now is totally different than what it's ever been. And even having become, because even though I had that radical account with the Lord, I started falling right into climbing... It didn't take long. A couple of years later, I'm climbing the Christian corporate ladder. Like worship leader at church. It's growing, we're doing all the programs. Everything is on the money, growing and it's awesome. Other big churches are wanting to hire me to do stuff. And I'm just going... And suddenly it's not about this intimate relationship that I have with the Lord. Now it's this... It's my job and I'm just doing it. It can become that so fast and I think that's almost more insidious than anything the world could offer sometimes.

Stephen:
And I think this is not for everybody because the church is beautiful. I love it. But for me personally, I had this radical, this moment where I was like, "I don't think I can do this anymore." And I kind of just was like this, "I'm going off into the woods to fast and pray." That kind of stuff. And I really did. I really delved heavily into this fasting and praying and learning to hear the voice of God for real like I did that night at three o'clock in the morning, getting back to that pure place. And I started learning what it means to worship out of the overflow, which is basically the [unchurchify 00:15:09] that phrase of, I want to be someone that spends so much time adoring Him when nobody's watching, loving Him and singing for Him and playing for Him. Not doing it for anyone else. Not rehearsing for Sunday morning. Not hitting record on my voice memo because I got a cool song idea.

Stephen:
Literally just singing to the Lord. If I live out of that place, then when I get in front of people and do it, it's now the overflow of who I am when nobody watches. It's not like now I'm leading worship. No. Now I'm doing what I do all the time when no one's around. And so for me now, I would say success is protecting that. If I can protect that, no matter what I'm doing, and I'm able to create music and create with Him, partner with Him and creating music and continuously release it and have freedom to really create with Him and still intimately be able to get away and just love Him well, and not be shaken by it. That success, because you can have all the Grammys, you can have all the Doves and be a very miserable person. Trust me. Not trust me personally.

Stephen:
I don't know. I know people that will say, "Trust me." I'll say this about Jason Ingram, if anybody knows who he is. And I think he'd be okay with me telling this story. I remember one time pulling in his garage and I saw all these like gold statues under dirty rags next to spray paint cans and all this kind of stuff in his garage. And I was like, "Is that what I think that is?" He's like, "It's 20 something Dove awards." And they're all in his garage with just stuff on them. I was like, "That's crazy." He's like, "Well, they don't do any good in the house. I just leave them out here in the garage." Because they don't really, they're not markers for success. That stuff's not, because at the end of the day, we're all going to blink and be in the presence of the living God. Platforms that you build are not going to matter.

Stephen:
It's going to really matter is like, "Did you love me? Do you love me?" Because like it says in the Bible many people will say, "Well, didn't I do this? Didn't I do that in your name? Look at all this other stuff." He'll be like, "I didn't know you." Which is crazy. [inaudible 00:17:20] people that are doing crazy awesome things for the Lord may not know Him. You know what I mean? That to me is mind blowing. Crazy, right? So I think, sorry, that's a long answer, but I think success is keeping a real intimate relationship with the Lord. No matter what's going on.

Wisdom:
Stephen, that reminds me, as a Christian music marketing agency, we get a lot of inquiries. We talk to a lot of people every week. A lot of independent artists, churches that reach out. But one of the things I like to ask them during the initial discovery call is, "What are your goals long-term for doing this?" Because obviously you're wanting to invest into marketing for a reason and unfortunately I could count too many of those conversation where the answer was, "I want to be nominated for a Dove award" or "I want to win a Dove award." And it's actually even people outside of the US, which is really interesting. Not just people in the US, but other parts of the world. When I talk to them, that's the answer they give me. Literally my response to that is "If that's your goal, we're probably not the right agency for you because that's not what we are striving for."

Stephen:
There's this amazing clip of, oh gosh, what's his name? He played... Jim Carey, Jim Carey. And he's pronounced, he's supposed to present an award. And when they announce him and they say, "Two time Golden Globe winner, Jim Carrey" and he comes out and he goes, "Yes, I'm two time Golden Globe winner, Jim Carrey. And I'm just like you. Every night, I fall asleep, dreaming that hopefully someday I'll be three time Golden Globe winner Jim Carey." And it's just that joke of even if you get that, there'll be another thing that you want, that you think will fill the void. It won't give you security. I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it sometimes. If it's like... We sometimes say, "Well, I just want to make enough money so I don't have to worry about things." Well, trust me, I know lots of people that have lots of money and they're worried about new things. So it's really this, man. If right now you can be in a place of real contentment with Him and fulfillment with Him, then whatever else comes is just icing on the cake.

Kat:
Well, yeah, cause the reality is, if you're not content now, you won't be any more content when you have whatever it is that you're striving for. In fact, you might be less content because you've spent all this time striving for something that you assumed would fill the void and then you get there and you feel the same?

Stephen:
And this sounds, it's funny coming from me because I haven't won like a Dove award. I haven't done any of that stuff. So it's not like I'm this guy that's like, "I've arrived. So listen to me." It's not that at all. It's just probably not getting those things makes me think about it. I'm guilty as anybody else going, "Look at this person, they got that and this person's got this blah, blah." And I think luckily, thankfully to the Lord, He helps me realize, "No, I'm trying to, I'm trying to show you something here." What if there's something more? What if this isn't... What if I don't want you to have more?

Stephen:
Like, "Wait, why wouldn't you want me to have one of those?" It was a big deal. It's like, "What if I don't want you to? What if I had something better for you that doesn't have anything to do with that?" And it's like, "Do we really mean it?" Because we write lots of songs about Jesus, you're more than enough for me. I love Him so much. If I just had this though, if I just had that. This is life 101. I don't care if you're worship music or whatever it is you're doing. You have to stop and go, "My God, do I really mean it when I say you're more than enough. Because I don't think I do." It's the most honest prayer that I think any of us can ask. And our pray is, God help me to want you more than I do. I want to want you more than I do.

Stephen:
Philippians 2:13 says "It's God in you giving you the desire and the power to do the things that please Him." This is like... Verse, right? It's mind blowing if you really unpack that. It's God in you giving you the desire. Many of us disqualify ourselves before we even start, because we don't want it as much as this person or that person. We don't want Him as much as that person. And even that desire can come from Him. Even the want to can come from him. It's crazy. Which makes sense. Like I said, we're selfish people. We're a mess. So of course he's going to change even our desires.

Wisdom:
Stephen, I was at church on Sunday and we were singing-

Stephen:
I wasn't.

Wisdom:
I was in the congregation sitting with my family and one of the songs that they started leading is, everybody would know this song. It's one of the top, probably in the top 100 CCLI and it actually hit me. I like to sing this song. I heard it so many times and it's by a pretty big name. And it actually hit me. This is a very self-centered song. It's actually very narcissistic. If you really read through the lyrics, it almost sounds like God exists for us, for us to succeed in life and all these things. So talk to us about that.

Stephen:
And I had to be careful, because dude, I can go down that path so quick. I mean, I think something the Lord's kind of done with me over the years is like, "Just let that go. You just created me." Even when we're doing this, this isn't about us, but even doing this choir session stuff we did recently, writing a song about repentance. Like a phone call. We repent. It's kind of like, "I'm the worst. Sorry. Your mercy's amazing." And I don't think there's a lot of that because it's taboo in the church for us to talk about repentance because everybody wants these songs that are like... And I've written these songs and I love them. But there's this like, "Lord, you're going to..." It's about me and how much you love me, which is great.

Stephen:
And but sometimes we leave out this whole other part of God's character out of a fear of something that is honestly not for the Lord, because even the idea of repentance. Just for example, which isn't about the song, the idea of repentance, okay? It's taboo a lot in the church, especially in worship and stuff. We try to write songs about it. But even when we try to write songs about it, it comes across as one of those songs again. We just want to kind of water it down, but it's, no. And even in the Bible, if you really spend time looking at repentance, on the other side of repentance is blessing. Everything God does, even the stuff that's hard to sing about sometimes on the other end is something better. Right? And we have a hard time going to that stuff of just like, "Man, I just want to..." We've been doing these hymns, we did this hymn VP right now that we're working on. Looking at all those old hymns which are sacred songs to a lot of people in church, they're all like Sunday school lessons.

Stephen:
None of them are like, "I'm talking to God." Some of them are, you know what I mean? Like the classic I Exalt Thee, The Great is Thy Faithful. They're very centered towards Him. But a lot of them are like, "Let me tell you about Jesus." And even that it's like, "I just want something that I can really talk to Him about Him." Where I can talk to Him, like really talk to Him like He's in the room because He is. And I don't think we're very good at that. I think if you're having a real conversation with Him, I think, it's what comes out is going to be different than what we might hear in a lot of churches. If you're honest and you're really with Him. You're really sitting with Him. You're really talking to Him. You believe He's there. You're spending time with His word learning about what He's like. The things you say to Him in that place.

Stephen:
The things He says to you in that place are very different, I think, than some of what we get on Sunday morning. Because what happens is when we create, and not all songwriters, I love songwriting community. I know so many songwriters that are just amazing people. So don't blanket this across it. But what happens, sometimes you do these songwriting rooms and the first thing you think is "Will my church sing this? Will this person like it? Will that person like it? Can I see them singing along? This is not, it sounds like I'm being harsh, but I'm not. I'm not saying that's a terrible thing. It's just not the best thing.

Stephen:
The best thing is like, "What do you think about this God? Is this what I'm supposed to be singing to you? Is this what you want me to sing over my life circumstances?" For real? Who cares what anybody else thinks. If you can learn to create out of that place what's going to come out of it will be stuff that has what people like to call the anointing on it. And often we use anointing as a way of just saying, "I like that singer better than that singer. Oh, he's anointed."

Stephen:
You just mean you like his voice better. Anointed is someone that spent time with Jesus. And sometimes they're honestly, you probably see this, too. Some works for you that just aren't that technically skilled, or there's just something about them that leads you into the presence of God. It's because they're there already. Crazy.

Kat:
I think it was at the very start of the pandemic, you guys might've seen this. I think it was Brooke Ligertwood. I'm probably butchering her new last name. [crosstalk 00:28:03] [Ligertofoo 00:28:05] something. Anyways, she had written this thing about how, I think it's a caption on Instagram, about how all these people had been reaching out to her saying like, "Brooke, what is worship supposed to look like in this season? Everything is shut down. What do we do, blah, blah, blah." And I thought it was so interesting that her response to it, she literally wrote it out. I think this is pretty close to word for word that she said, "I don't understand this question because for me, worship is going to look like what it's always looked like. I'll just only be doing it by myself now, instead of also doing it in this other environment that I used to do it in."

Stephen:
Great answer.

Kat:
And Stephen, I think that totally speaks to what you're saying of when you are actually personally spending time with God, the public part of it comes out versus when you don't have any private time with God, the public part is manufactured a lot.

Stephen:
Yeah. We do a songwriting... We do a songwriting workshop a lot. I'm going to do a couple of them this year. And the first thing that we teach is just how to be with the Lord. Because if we start with here's how to write a song, then people just run with a formula and that doesn't help anything because we have so many songs. You guys know this more than most. There are so many songs out there. I don't know. I guess what I'm getting at is you really have to learn to... Is every song meant to build a platform or is every song meant to build a bridge between you and the Lord that's solidifying that intimacy with Him. And if the platform comes from that, then awesome. But the best part about it is the fact that... I know if I'm saying it to somebody they're like, "Yeah, that sounds great. But I got to pay the bills" and I'm like, "No." All of that stuff is cart before the horse. All of it.

Stephen:
Yeah. I think if you start there with Him, everything else starts to seem a lot lighter, a lot lighter of load. Because I think today I have more things on my plate than I ever have, but I feel less weight about it than I ever have because it's... I don't know. It's not like creating a platform. And you guys, we work together and you know we get in a meeting, it's like, "Hey, we feel like God's behind this or not? If not, let's do something else." That can be kind of annoying. God told me last night to just sleep all day. See you guys later.

Kat:
Just needed this rest. I guess Stephen, that leads us to tell everybody what you have coming up that you're excited about and then where they can find you if they want to listen to your music or check out your stuff after this.

Stephen:
Yeah. You're going to go to Robinson's Instagram page and then you're going to want to watch Kat sing because she's amazing. There you go.

Kat:
First off, that's not my last name so...

Stephen:
There you go. You're welcome. There you go. Go. I'm not joking. Right now. Go listen to Kat sing.

Kat:
Okay. Stop. Stephen. All right. Tell them about the choir session's live album.

Stephen:
Okay. After you do that... After you've done that you can go to... Just go to my Instagram page. There's a link in bio that takes you to everything, but you can also go to smworship.com, as in Stephen McWhirter, smworship.com and find out everything there. We have the choir sessions live record, which is we just hit record for an hour. And what we got is what we got. It was really fun. We just prayed. We worship, we read scripture. It was just fun. It was so good to be in a room full of people doing that. Especially with that choir, that 30 piece all black choir, which is like being strapped to a holy spirit freight train. It's amazing.

Stephen:
And my friend, Jason [Clayborne 00:31:56], of course, is just... they're so gifted and getting to do that with my band and friends is amazing. So that comes out this Friday and we just recorded literally yesterday in a studio, we, live, we did a hymns EP where I was going back and taking all these hymn songs. So even songs that are like, "Turn your eyes upon Jesus." We were like, "I'm turning... I turned my eyes to you Jesus." We were making it like, "Can I sing this when I'm by myself?" So we were really... I was really coming at those songs from that angle. How can I... Some of them were easy. Great is Thy Faithfulness is just, I didn't realize how great that song was until I started singing it. I was like, [inaudible 00:32:37] amazing. But, so we did that.

Stephen:
Next, we're going to start coming out soon, too. Lots of cool stuff. And of course we're going to do another choir sessions record this year as well. And the choir sessions record from last year, which people probably don't even know there was a first one, but we did one last year as well. End of 2020. And that's out right now. Just choir sessions. Actually, if you just look up choir sessions on, I think Apple music, it's one of the first things that pop up because there's actually not a lot of stuff called that, which is interesting.

Stephen:
So yeah. And then we, if you want to be a part of Patreon that we do, which is really cool, we have a lot of behind the scenes incentives and fun stuff for people to kind of connect more with me and with us and help us keep making music. Keep creating in a place that's truly for you, the Lord. And you guys do something. Don't you have something in the artist mentor thing where you guys do, like teaching people how to do a Patreon and stuff, right?

Wisdom:
Yeah.

Stephen:
That's cool.

Kat:
We do indeed.

Stephen:
Well that's what you got to do. [inaudible 00:33:43] I think you guys were the ones that got me doing the Patreon thing. See? Now my kids can go to community college. Good job. They thank you.

Kat:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Thanks Stephen so much for coming on. I think you're our third guest and we really appreciate it and you just sharing more about who you are, your heart. And obviously you've had a big year. I feel like God blessed you so much last year.

Stephen:
Yeah. We got to do The Chosen. That was cool. The Chosen Christmas thing. That was a big blessing. And so, yes. I'm [inaudible 00:34:27] with you guys and anybody jumping on here. This is an amazing team of people. So fun to do this with you guys.

Kat:
Thanks Stephen.

Stephen:
Oh, you're welcome. I expect a discount next month. All right.

Kat:
Well, thanks-

Wisdom:
We'll send you a delivery, Grubhub.

Kat:
Yeah. There you go.

Stephen:
Please just pay me in GrubHub gift cards. Thank you.

Kat:
Just a gift card. Thanks everybody for tuning in. We will be back next week and we'll be announcing our guests for next week on Monday. So be sure that you tune in for that. Stephen. Thank you again, everybody be sure to check out Stephen's music, wherever you listen to music. And if you are looking for a marketing team to help you grow your impact and influence, we would love to talk to you. You can get started today at our website. The link is in our bio. Bye guys.

Stephen:
Go listen to Kat's music. You're welcome.

Kat:
Stop. Bye.

Wisdom:
See ya.